Basic Vegetable Stock

Can you suggest another substitute for sun-dried tomatoes? As they are quite expensive in our country. Will tomato paste do for now? Thank you

Yes, your intuition served you well! A small amount of paste is OK.

I have to say that this was one of the most flavourful stocks I have made. It is even more flavourful than the chicken, turkey, or beef stocks that I have made.I pretty much threw everything I could think of into it. Squash, onion, carrot, celery, mushroom, shallot, green onion, chili peppers, a little of this, a little of that... I can hardly wait to start using it this coming week.

I completely agree - the depth of flavor can be really unique and bring s balance of sweet, savory and rich flavors together. Any cloudiness of sediment can easily be strained out (or let it simply settle to the bottom) and the coloration can be light or dark. Glad you enjoyed it! ~Ken

Is it possible to reuse the cooked vegetables for a different recipe or is it better not to keep them as they lost all their nutrients and flavour in the stock cooking process? Thanks!!

As you guessed, the veggies will have lost all their nutrients and flavour in the stock cooking process. All the good stuff is now in your stock! That said, dogs seem to love them mixed in with their dog food.

Exactly Leigh- When done correctly the veggies will have little flavor and a very soft texture. Not ideal for other applications. ~Ken

Thanks Leigh and Ken. I feel like I am wasting food but if there ate no nutrients left, there is no point in keeping the veggies! (not even for the dog as he won't benefit from them either. But might reuse them for compost... ) thanks!

Compost is a great option.... the vegetables are pretty "spent" after they are made into stock/broth. ~Ken

I have run into a problem with bitter stock more often than I'd like to. It doesn't happen everytime, but sometimes I'll have a bitter flavor that can be very overwhelming. At first I thought it might be organ meat (in my chicken/turkey stock) but now I just made a veggie stock and I'm running into it again. Since the last time it happened I heard carrot ends can add bitterness so I stopped saving carrot ends in my freezer stock bag. I also thought in the past butternut squash peels might have been the culprit. But this time, nothing like that was in my stock bag and I still found a bitter flavor. what should I avoid putting in my stock to make sure this doesn't happen again in the future?

Hard to say without more info. For instance, are you running into this when making a dark stock, or a light stock, or both? If I may, I will offer a few suggestions of things to try so you can perhaps locate or isolate the source of the bitterness on your own. 1. As you have suggested, the bitterness can come from bitter vegetables or vegetable parts. (ends, stems, skins, etc) I'd suggest trying to make a vegetable stock as a test, where you are only using fresh vegetables, that have been peeled and chopped. Taste each vegetable in its raw state to make sure that it meets the flavor profile and sweetness that you are seeking. If you detect any bitterness in the raw state, you are most certainly going to detect bitterness in the final product. 2. Bitterness can also come from burned or overcooked vegetables. If your vegetables, mirepoix, or garlic are burned during the roasting or sweating phase of stock making, they will definitely impart bitterness in the final stock. 3. Your meat is not likely to be the source of bitterness unless severely burned. A little caramelization is desired... too much and you may begin to get undesired flavours or bitterness. 4. I always use filtered water for my stocks and broths. It may be overkill, but my tap water tastes funny, and I don't want to risk having it alter the taste of my final product. That's pretty much it. If you use fresh tasting vegetables, fresh tasting water, and avoid burning your mirepoix during the roasting phase, you should end up with great tasting stock. My 2 cents worth! :-)

Leigh, great feedback as always. The only other thing that I might be able to add is the type of vegetables used could possibly add some bitterness. Bu honestly, t I am thinking it's one of the above things that Leigh has mentioned. Here is a note taken from this other vegetable stock (on Rouxbe) "Vegetable stock or broth can be made with nearly any combination of vegetables. Just keep in mind that strong-flavored vegetables, such as cabbage, eggplant, turnips or peppers can dominate the flavor, so these should typically be omitted." Sonya, please let us know how it goes and if you might be able to provide anymore insight. And Leigh, thanks again for being so supportive and informative :-) Cheers.

Hi guys, Thanks for all of your feedback. Here's some more background to give you a better idea.: I make stock all the time and this only happened 3 times but I can't find a connection. 1) first time it happened was with with a turkey stock after thanksgiving. I used half the turkey bones, organ meat, fresh veg and my frozen stock scraps. It was so bitter I threw it out and used the other half of the bones, no fresh veg (since I was out at that point) and some more (fresher) frozen scraps. the second batch was good so I thought maybe it was the organ meat. 2) second time it happened was with chicken stock. I did not use organ meat. I used a whole chicken, fresh veg and my frozen stock bag. it was very bitter. this is where I read online that it might be carrot ends (which I always saved up until this point) and also I thought maybe the butternut squash peels I had in my freezer bag could be to blame. from then on, I only saved clean, fresh peels, no veggie ends of anything in my freezer bag. I never saved any cabbage, broccoli or other strong tasting veggies in my frozen scraps. 3) so when the this time it was bitter I'm beginning to get frustrated. I didn't have any fresh veg on hand and there's no meat at all so I can rule out fresh veggies and organ meat....I had a ton of scraps in the freezer so I filled up my slow cooker and let it go. Only scraps were from carrots, potatoes, sweet potatoes, onions, celery, and fennel. Would the fennel tops have been the culprit maybe???? Other notes: - I have always used filtered water for my stocks. - I never burn anything when making a stock so that is not the point of failure (never had a bitter brown stock and all others I don't precook anything) - as I mentioned I thought ends and strange veggies were a problem so this time I only used very clean, very carefully chosen scraps from my veggie freezer bag - I never use strong veg when making stocks. when I use fresh veggies, it's always just onion, celery and carrots. The only connection I can draw is that I never had this problem before I started keeping my scraps as suggested from this class. At this point if I can't figure out what I'm doing wrong I'm not going to keep frozen scraps anymore. That feels like a great big waste and I really like the flavor my stocks have had since I started using the scraps (when it doesn't come out bitter), but I'm tired of throwing pots of stock down the drain. could it be the age of the frozen scraps? how long can I keep it in the fridge before there is a problem?

I mean how long can I keep the frozen scraps in the freezer before they go bad, not in the fridge

Hi Sonya - Just chiming in here to support Dawn and Leigh who have both provided a lot of inout. Scraps can be stored for a few months in the freezer with no issues. It's hard to say what is going on with your stock. I do not attribute any bitterness to freezing the vegetables or scraps. I would not add fennel to a stock- too strong for sure. Potato peels are also not the best idea, in my opinion, as they add little to no flavor and could add unwanted cloudiness due to the starch as it breaks down.

Thanks Ken, Dawn, and Leigh for all your help! I will assume my scraps were too old and maybe turned based on what you have mentioned. My freezer scrap bag was started several months ago, which may be too long. that actually may explain all the scenarios (and especially the turkey stock situation since when I made the second stock and it wasn't bitter I was using fresher scraps) In the future I will fill a bag only for a month and mark it and start a new bag when the month is up. then I can throw out anything that is too old very easily. I will also in the future not save potato peels ( I will assume that goes for sweet potatoes as well) or fennel. Thanks all for the input. I really appreciate it! :)

I think you've hit the nail on the head, Sonya. The common denominator in all three instances is the frozen vegetables. I'd put my money on "Colonel Mustard, in the Kitchen, with the Frozen Vegetables." :-) Not saying that using frozen vegetables is always going to be a problem, but it sounds like you've been throwing everything but the kitchen sink in your freezer pack and I suspect that somewhere along the line some random bitter item got pitched in there and every so often creeps into your unsuspecting veggie stock. If you haven't already, I'd suggest that you throw out your current package of frozen vegetables and start over.

Any advice on cooking time if I wanted to cook this through a pressure cooker?

Hi Fernando and thanks for your question. Indeed, because of the concentrated and high heat of pressure cookers, you can typically complete a tasty and rich vegetable stock in as little as 15 minutes! Happy Cooking. Chef Kirk

Would sauteing or roasting the vegetables prior to putting them in the pot bring out the flavors more? Or is it an unnecessary extra step? Thanks so much!

Hi Kelly! Great question! So roasting your vegetables would definitely bring out some additional flavor profiles - and most likely some richer color as well. I highly recommend if you have the time! All the best, Chef Kirk

The first time I made this recipe, I felt like it was just a bit bland (and it only yielded a small amount of stock). I had simmered for 1.5 hours. The second time, I quadrupled this recipe to ensure I had plenty of stock on hand for the next week or two and simmered for 3 hours. The stock is much more flavorful but has a distinct carrot flavor (it is quite sweet). For personal preference, I think I'll cut back the amount of carrot for my next batch. The second batch of stock also took on much more color than the first (it is pretty dark). I'm wondering if there is a point during the simmering process (after 1.5 hours) where you simply can't extract any additional flavor/nutrients out of the vegetables and/or if you are doing harm to the integrity of the stock by simmering too long?

Hi Sunnie: I think you brought up some excellent questions in your stock making adventure. One of the things that I do is add the onion skins, which seem to add a golden color to the broth. Onion skins are often used as a natural food coloring, so, one day I decided to add the skins, and the broth was more golden, which I was hoping for. Not sure what type of vessel you are cooking with, but I do know that copper pots have faster cooking times than stainless, cast iron, etc. But, you have said it best with two words, "personal preference." Also, if the stock is made at too high a heat, the delicate flavors can be boiled off, same thing if it is simmered too long. Hope this helps. Have a great day! -Char

Thank you Char! I'll definitely try the onion skins in my next batch and perhaps take the cooking time down a bit. I'm making my stock in a stainless steel pot and ensuring the liquid stays at a low simmer. I really appreciate the feedback and advice!

Hi Sunnie: Let your vegetables be the colors to your palette in making the stock. Believe it or not, I also use kale stems for making stock. Have fun. And, as always, thanks for writing. Be well, -Char

Can I use chickpea water(aquafaba) in the stock to mimic the gelatinous quality of meat stocks?thank u.

Hello Olufemi: Good question. I would reduce the aquafaba first. Put it in a sauce pan (without a lid) and let it reduce for about 30-45 minutes. You will have a thick, yellow liquid. But, in terms of receiving the gelatinous quality of a meat stock, that would be difficult to replicate. On occasion, I have used agar-agar to thicken a soup, and that works well. Hope this helps. Thanks for writing. -Char

Thank u alot x what temperature do I need my fridge to be at so my chicken stock can produce that gelatinous quality. Thank u very much x

Hello Olufemi: ideal refrigerator temps are between 35-38 degrees (F) or 1.6 degrees (C) - 3.3 degrees (C). Hope this is helpful to you. Thx, Char

What is the best way to freeze a stock and how long will it keep in the refrigerator and also in the freezer? I've heard of people putting their stocks in ice cube trays but couldn't I just put some in a glass jar and keep in the freezer?

Hi Robert, For storage time, I recommend about 5-7 days in the refrigerator and about 6 months in the freezer. You could use a glass jar, just remember to leave about 1-inch worth of headspace as the liquid expands as it freezes. As an alternative, for freezer space issues, I at times, put the stock in zipper bags, and lay them flat on a cookie sheet until frozen. Then they can be stacked or stood up, side by side, like a library of stocks on the shelf. Cheers, Sandy

What is a basic veg to water ratio for stocks as I made a stock and it was flavourless and watery

Hello, Riaz: thanks for writing. For the stock, you can use 2 quarts of cold water for the liquid. You want a gentle simmer--and should simmer for about 60-90 minutes. And, keep the stock pot uncovered. These tips should help create a rich and flavorful stocks. Cheers, Char

Thanks for that tip. My kids have mentioned that I use too many storage bags when I freeze. I just don't have enough glass containers or storage for them to freeze things. Now that you have mentioned it, I don't feel so guilty. I love Rouxbe

This one I can see me making forever in the future Who know it was this easy Well easier than I thought it would be .

If you keep a container in your freezer for stock making, what would you put in it and what would you leave out. This recipe calls for peeling the carrots. I would normally put carrot peels in my bag, as well as papery onion skins, celery strings, sweet potato peels etc. I am just trying to figure out what is best for the compost and what to save for the stock.

Earlene, thank you for your question. You have the right idea in saving those peels. While scraps can accumulate quickly, you will most likely have a consistent abundance of scrap going into your compost. --Chris

Food scraps go in compost, not for human consumption. Always fresh for best tasting stock/broth. You'll never be disappointed

How many ribs of celery on in half head celery on average?

Hi Amy--generally speaking, about 3-4 ribs.But, a lot of it depends on the size of the head. Hope this is helpful. Take care, Char